I learned on the shutter and dogma. The shutter was great in aiming for the inner grind area but still required learning a good slight tilt. The dogma has a nice area around the hub that spins real nice on that slight tilt. Recently picked up a skyva. Love it, but until you have a good horizontal throw and practice popping up onto the finger, it’s actually harder than the shutter. Sometimes it will spin around my finger and never settle into that tiny dimple!