Yes sir, I can do the Brent Stole. I never tried the specified RIB, in its original form, so I can learn that. My problem with the RNV was that it reall never opens the loop going counterclockwise, like it does going clock. I am going to try switching my hand positions to see if that irons it out. I appreciate the explanation to Toledo’s trick. I will try it when I get the RNV down, to make it easier. I will let you know how I progress. Thanks, as always for helping out. I am not a great yoer, or very innovative, but if I can help you with any trick, don’t hesitate to ask.