Yoyomonster Review Thread: Agonist, Antagonist

yoyomonster Agonist


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Left: Agonist Prototype, Right: Agonist First Retail Release

The Agonist is yoyomonster’s current flagship yo-yo. It is essentially a bimetal version of their previous flagship yo-yo, the Checkmate, though the weight has been reduced by several grams to accommodate Hideo Ishida’s fast play style. So far there have been two releases of the Agonist: a prototype, and a retail version. The specs on the two versions are identical. They are each available in purple or green. The only differences between the prototype and the retail version are that the prototype is blank, and the press fitting of the rings on the retail version is somewhat better. The press fit is still relatively weak, however, and yoyomonster has informed me they are working on a final retail version, which will be released when the press fit is sufficiently strong. At present, they have a prototype with a good press fit, but I could not get a satisfying answer about when the final version will be released. I was just told it will be a while later.

Hideo Ishida is currently using the Agonist and recently used it to place 3rd in 5A at JN2014, which is the highest he has ever placed in that event. Check it out below–a really great performance overall.

I believe Naoya Takeuchi, who took 3rd in 5A at AP2014, sometimes uses the Agonist.


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[tr][td]yoyomonster Agonist Specs                                        [/td][td] General Yo Amplitude Specs[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Release year: 2013 (1st run)
Weight: 62.16g
Diameter: 54.93mm
Width: 42.30mm
Trapeze Width: 40mm
Gap Width: ? (~4.25mm)
Profile: Mixed Straight
Body Material: Aluminum 7075
Rim Material: Brass
Bearing: YYM Concave 10-ball
Bearing Size: C
Response: Yoyomonster pad[/td]             
[td]Release year: 2014
Weight: 63.15g
Diameter: 53.90mm
Width: 42.25mm
Trapeze Width: ? (~40 mm)
Gap Width: 4.25 mm
Profile: Step Straight
Body Material: Aluminum 6061
Rim Material: N/A
Bearing: GY AIGR flat bearing
Bearing Size: C
Response: GY Smooth Hat Pads[/td][/tr]

Note how similar the specs are between the Agonist and the Amplitude. Aside from being a bimetal yo-yo, the only differences are that the Agonist is approximately 1g lighter and 1mm greater in diameter, and has a mixed straight profile rather than a step straight profile. The main difference is in the weight distribution–the Agonist has more weight concentrated around the rims, which makes it more stable and longer spinning.

I could find no information on the Agonist’s gap width but it appears to be about the same width as with the Amplitude, as you can see from the images in the first post.

[tr][td]The response pads on the Agonist are proprietary 19mm diameter 1mm thick silicon pads, but are very similar to IRPads. Moreover, the Agonist is compatible with various popular pads such as YYF CBC large slim pads and IRPads. There is also a special “Hideo Ishida” version of the response pads put out by yoyomonster, which are 1.08mm thick. They come in Type 1 (normal) and Type 2 (soft) versions. I have only tried out the standard YYM response pads and the Hideo Ishida Type 1 pads so far, and while I slightly prefer the Hideo Ishida pads, the difference would not be significant for most players. The standard response pad is pictured on the right.

In addition, it’s worth noting the Agonist uses a long (12mm I think) M4 axle.[/td][td]
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Pros

  • Stability: The Agonist is remarkably stable. From how stable this yo-yo is, you would not expect it to weigh 62.16g. It’s just as stable as most of my heavier yo-yos and more stable than some, including the Amplitude. This is due to the increased weight distribution on the yo-yo’s periphery. One really has to try it to believe it. It maintains stability very well for 5A tricks during pinwheel-like motions, and while it is easy to get this yo-yo to tilt horizontally if you want it to tilt, I have very rarely had it do so unintentionally.

  • Spin Times: The spin times on the Agonist are phenomenal. Whenever I get a new yo-yo, I like to run a couple of sleeper tests. First, I’ll throw one or two strong sleepers with the default bearing and time it. Then I’ll put in a new NSK (if I have one) gold bearing and do the same. On my first throw with the default bearing, I got 7:47. I was impressed enough that I didn’t run a second test with that bearing. When I put in the NSK, I got 10:16. That is the second longest sleeper I’ve ever thrown, the longest being around 10:30 with a 72g Sturm Panzer Eclipse Ogre. It outsleeps the Draupnir, the Laser, the Isotope 2, both versions of the Leo Sniper MK II, the Amplitude, the Ares Star, the Leviathan 5, the Prominence, and the Movitation. Considering this yo-yo is lighter than all of these except the dark blue Leo Sniper MK II, this is absolutely incredible. Now I know spin times are not even close to the most important factor when choosing a yo-yo, but man, the Agonist is impressive. Spin times when there are multiple string layers are not quite as good as would be expected from the sleeper test, but still as good or better than everything I have except my Sturm Panzer yo-yos, which are either D-bearing yo-yos or have very wide gaps. Color me impressed!

  • Speed: The Agonist plays very fast. This can be a pro or con depending on your preferences, but since it was designed to play fast, and I like yo-yos that play fast, I’m calling it a pro. It’s not quite as speedy as either version of the Leo Sniper MK II (very light D-bearing yo-yos), but it’s speedier than anything else I have. It plays pretty close to the Amplitude in feel, but is a little faster.

  • Torque: The Agonist has torque well above average due to it’s high diameter:width ratio of 1.299 and its distribution of weight around the rims. The torque is not quite as extreme as the Laser, Eclipse Ogre, or Leo Sniper MK II, but there’s plenty to give it high RPMs and long spin times.

  • Default bearing: The default bearing is quite good for a steel bearing. It’s a YYM concave 10-ball, which you can buy on its own for $10. It’s not a cheap Chinese bearing. The default bearing is not that important, but it bothers me when I buy a $250 yo-yo and it comes with a cruddy bearing cough Turning Point cough. I don’t like it quite as much as a YYR Double Straight, but the difference is relatively insignificant. It’s basically a “generic” concave 10-ball bearing that outperforms the Konkave.

  • Response: The response pads on the Agonist are highly customizable, but I find the default ones suit me just fine. The Agonist binds tight but not as tight as a Draupnir, which can be a little grabby. With a properly cleaned bearing it is dead unresponsive when jerking the string. The string doesn’t wrap around the axle like it can happen with grabbier yo-yos, leading to unintentional binds. Thankfully, the Agonist only binds unintentionally if the bearing is in bad shape or a response pad is falling off.

  • Horizontals: I’ll admit it. I am really bad at horizontal tricks. So how do I know this yo-yo handles horizontals well? I know because that’s exactly what this profile was designed for, ever since the Checkmate. Hideo Ishida does a lot of horizontal tricks for a 5A player and it’s his signature throw. I think it’s a pretty safe bet that it’s great at handling horizontal tricks. Plus, even though I suck with these tricks, I can at least notice when attempting them how quickly the yo-yo spins out, and the Agonist is comparatively quite slow to spin out when in horizontal motion.

  • Smooth: The Agonist is dead smooth (unless you manage to knock out a ring!). I know this isn’t very important during normal play, but for me it adds to my enjoyment of the yo-yo if it plays smoothly and quietly.

  • Quiet: The Agonist is one of my quietest yo-yos when paired with the right bearing. There’s just a very soft hiss when spinning and a tiny ping heard when it lands on the string. It reminds me in this way of the Draupnir. I think it’s ever so slightly quieter than a Draupnir, but at those sound levels it’s hard to tell for certain. But it’s definitely quiet.

  • Comfort: The “mixed straight” design is in my opinion the most comfortable profile design I have encountered. It accommodates both a 1A grip and 5A grip equally well. The Agonist just feels good in the hand, it doesn’t hurt to catch, and it’s not awkward to throw. It’s just plain comfortable.

  • Appearance: Some people may disagree with me here, but I think the best-looking yo-yos are not those with crazy splashes like CLYW yo-yos. I prefer minimalist designs. They just look more elegant. The Agonist is an elegant yo-yo. The purple version is especially beautiful. Sadly, I could not find a purple version of the retail model before it sold out. The green version looks pretty good, but it’s not purple. Everything’s better in purple.

Neutral

  • Price: The Agonist is a Japanese bimetal yo-yo so it goes without saying it’s going to be relatively expensive. Note on one site it was sold at $240, probably due to the dollar being weak against the yen at that point, but in yen it has always been sold at 19800 yen. On Yoyomonster’s new international site, the price is $200. I think this is expensive, but reasonable. Sturm Panzer has better deals for similar yo-yos, but the Agonist still costs significantly less than its biggest competitors’ bimetal yo-yos, namely, Yoyorecreation and Turning Point, whose anodized bimetal yo-yos run 23800 yen - 29800 yen.

  • Controllability: By controllability, I mean, how easy is it to keep the yo-yo on its intended trajectory? The Agonist is somewhere in the middle. It’s not super forgiving for a 5A yo-yo, as it can move off its intended trajectory due to sloppy technique. On the other hand, it’s not as bad as you would think for a 62.16g yo-yo. It’s about as easy to control as an Amplitude. But it’s definitely less forgiving than heavier yo-yos, in general, insofar as how easy it is to keep the yo-yo on its intended path, especially during pinwheel-like motions. I consider this a separate issue from stability, which to me means a yo-yo’s tendency to avoid tilting to the side, whereas by controllability I mean its tendency to go where you want it to go.

  • Grindability: The finish is similar to that of the Amplitude and most of my yo-yos (I don’t know the technical term, sorry). It does not grind as well as a blast finish, and the cup is just deep enough to do thumb grinds. Wearing gloves should ameliorate the first issue, though there’s nothing to be done about the second issue except practice.

  • Finger spins: The axle stub protrudes enough to make finger spins difficult, but not impossible. I can’t do finger spins on the Agonist, but that’s not saying much. I’ve seen people do finger spins on yo-yos with similar cup designs so I know it can be done.

  • Weight: It’s a really light yo-yo at 62.16g. It either suits your style or it doesn’t. I like light yo-yos, and if you like yo-yos such as the Draupnir, Amplitude, or Leo Sniper MK II, I can’t imagine you wouldn’t like the Agonist.

  • Fun factor: Whether a yo-yo is “fun” is incredibly subjective, so I leave this in the neutral category along with my opinion that yes, it is fun, despite being designed for competition. There are a few yo-yos I regard as more fun, but to me there is no distinction between “fun” yo-yos and “competition” yo-yos. While fun yo-yos may not be competition yo-yos, and vice versa, in my opinion this one falls into both camps.

Cons

  • Weakly press-fit rings: This is in my opinion the only real con for the Agonist. It is very difficult to manufacture bimetal yo-yos, and this is yoyomonster’s first attempt. They almost nailed it, but didn’t get the rings quite right. As such, the rings may pop out after a particularly hard collision. This happened with my prototype after a dice collision hard enough to break the coating. I tried to put the ring back but it wouldn’t stay, and I ended up using an epoxy to reattach it. I must have used too much epoxy, not applied it evenly, or put the ring in backwards, because now there is significant vibe, although the yo-yo is still playable. My green, retail Agonist is much better, and the rings feel pretty firmly attached, but I haven’t tried pressing my luck given my experience with the prototype. Yoyomonster now calls the second version a prototype also, though it was marketed as retail. My guess is they went to retail too soon, thinking they had fixed the issue with the prototype, and after realizing the Agonist wasn’t quite ready, started working on a new one. So even though this is a fairly serious con for 5A and a mild con for 1A (the rings shouldn’t fall out unless you enjoy slamming your yo-yo into concrete), it should be eliminated by the time of the next release. And since the Agonist is currently sold out everywhere, this shouldn’t be a con for anyone here unless you buy one of the first two versions second-hand.


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Conclusion

I’ve been meaning to review the Agonist ever since I purchased my prototype. After I broke my prototype, I forgot about it until I bought the retail version, which reminded me again how much I loved this yo-yo. The Agonist is my favorite yo-yo for 5A. For 1A, it’s a close call between the Agonist and the Draupnir. Overall, it’s the Agonist all the way. I believe this is one of the most underrated yo-yos in the world, especially in the West, where most of us likely have not even heard of it. If you like light yo-yos, you will like the Agonist. It is incredibly stable and long-spinning, it plays fast, smooth, and quiet, and it can serve you well in a competition or just having fun. The one major problem, the weakly press-fit rings, should no longer be an issue by the time the Agonist is re-released, which could be in a week or in several months. Is it worth spending $200? If you think any yo-yo is worth spending $200, then yes, I believe it is, and I think you would believe so too.

3 Likes

yoyomonster Antagonist


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The Antagonist is named after the yo-yo reviewed above, the Agonist, and while it does share the Agonist’s shape and has approximately the same width and diameter, the Antagonist is much closer in specs to another yoyomonster yo-yo, the Checkmate. It is essentially a delrin Checkmate–at least, that was the idea. I was looking for a good 5A delrin yo-yo that I could use in public, above hard surfaces, etc., with less risk of damaging the yo-yo and my surroundings.

The Antagonist is yet another Hideo Ishida signature throw. He talks about the Antagonist in the video below.

Design


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The Agonist, Antagonist, and Checkmate all share the same profile and are very close in specs regarding diameter and width. The Antagonist is much closer to the Checkmate than the Agonist in weight, however. In addition, there are significant differences in the rims and cup design. Since the Antagonist is made of Delrin, a much lighter material than aluminum, the rims were made extremely thick in order to approach the stability of the Agonist and Checkmate. The overall weight had to be increased as well in order to get a good weight distribution.

[tr][td]yoyomonster Agonist Specs        [/td][td] yoyomonster Antagonist Specs        [/td][td][u][b] yoyomonster Checkmate Specs[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Release year: 2013 (1st run)
Weight: 62.16g
Diameter: 54.93mm
Width: 42.30mm
Trapeze Width: 40mm
Gap Width: ? (~4.25mm)
Profile: Mixed Straight
Body Material: Aluminum 7075
Rim Material: Brass
Bearing: YYM Concave 10-ball
Bearing Size: C
Response: Yoyomonster pad[/td]             
[td]Release year: 2014
Weight: 67.20g
Diameter: 55.36mm
Width: 42.21mm
Trapeze Width: 40mm
Gap Width: ? (~3.25mm)
Profile: Mixed Straight
Body Material: Celcon
Rim Material: N/A
Bearing: YYM Concave 10-ball
Bearing Size: C
Response: yoyomonster pad[/td]
[td]Release year: 2011
Weight: 66.5g
Diameter: 54.89mm
Width: 42.31mm
Trapeze Width: 40mm
Gap Width: ? (~4.25mm)
Profile: Mixed Straight
Body Material: Aluminum 6061
Rim Material: N/A
Bearing: YYM Concave 10-ball
Bearing Size: C
Response: yoyomonster pad[/td][/tr]

Like the Agonist and Checkmate, the Antagonist uses proprietary silicon response pads that are very similar to IRPads and the Antagonist is compatible with the 19mm OD large slim IRPad. The bearing used is yoyomonster’s proprietary concave 10-ball, which is one of the better steel bearings I’ve used.


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One big difference between the Antagonist and the other two yo-yos is that the Antagonist has a much shallower cup. Another big difference is the Antagonist has a much smaller gap width. This makes the yo-yo annoyingly responsive at times. Perhaps the most significant difference is in how the axle attaches. In the Antagonist, the axle is a short M4 and does not actually screw into the yo-yo halves. Instead, it goes through a spacer placed under the bearing recess and screws into the thin metal plates on either side. These plates are press fit rather weakly and are prone to falling out when the yo-yo is unscrewed, though they are not hard to re-attach. They are also responsible for giving the yo-yo some vibe. I think this is the worst aspect of the yo-yo’s design. A standard tap-through axle would have been preferable in my opinion, though there are some advantages to this design.

Pros

  • Stability: Just like the Agonist and Checkmate the Antagonist is an extremely stable yo-yo. To achieve that stability in a delrin yo-yo, the rims had to be made extremely thick due to the material’s low density. As a result, increasing the stability causes some compromises here by leaving the cup rather shallow and making grinds extremely difficult.

  • Controllability: The Antagonist is quite easy to control at 67 grams. It goes where you want it to go and inadvertent rocking of the yo-yo while hanging on its tether is fairly minimal.

  • Tight binds: The Antagonist has very tight binds which I find more of a pro than a con. However there is a downside to this as the yo-yo becomes responsive quite easily.

  • Default Bearing: Like the Agonist the Antagonist uses a YYM Concave 10-ball, which is probably my 2nd favorite steel bearing after the YYR Double Straight. The shape is standard concave and having 10 balls makes it smoother and quieter than an 8-ball. This bearing has superb spin times when properly cleaned, though it achieves limited potential in the Antagonist due to some flaws I will mention later.

  • Horizontals: The mixed straight shape is ideal for horizontal tricks. Like the Checkmate and Agonist, the Antagonist handles horizontal tricks well but loses its spin a little faster.

  • Finger Spins: The shallow, round cup is almost ideal for finger spin tricks. While finger spins are possible on the Agonist and Checkmate, the cup shape of the Antagonist is much better suited for this, though it has its downsides.

  • Comfort: The Antagonist is extremely comfortable. It feels like the Agonist but has the nice smooth feel of delrin. This is the first delrin 1A/3A/5A yo-yo I’ve purchased and I was pleasantly surprised with how it feels compared to aluminum.

  • Fun: I don’t know why exactly but I find this yo-yo to be a lot of fun. Maybe it’s the feel of the delrin. Maybe it’s the fact that I’m less fearful of damaging the yo-yo and willing to take it with me places. Competitively it’s inferior to the Agonist and Checkmate but I definitely enjoy carrying it around.

  • Durability: The Antagonist is very durable as a delrin yo-yo. Dropping it onto hard surfaces will leave light scratches (sometimes nothing) instead of nasty gouges. This also make the yo-yo very portable, especially for a 5A player. Dropping it will result in less damage to the yo-yo and your surroundings.

  • Appearance: It’s not the prettiest yo-yo in the world but personally I really like the appearance. The minimalist design looks great in person.

Neutrals

  • Price: At 5800 yen or $65.99, depending where you buy it, this is a relatively expensive yo-yo for a delrin. On the other hand it is way cheaper than Japanese metal yo-yos.

  • Vibration: When I first got the Antagonist I was rather disappointed by a very significant level of vibe present. I believe this is caused by a combination of the extreme rim weighting not being exactly equal, and more important, by the way the axle screws into the metal disks press-fit into the cup. Imperfections in the metal disks and spacers cause vibration that likely varies from yo-yo to yo-yo. Luckily, the vibration has decreased a lot since I first got the yo-yo. It’s still noticeable but not enough to affect play much. One area where it does affect play is it decreases overall spin times but this is most noticeable at the low-RPM stage. You won’t win any sleeper contests with this yo-yo (I could only get about 4.5 minutes) but for normal play it’s not as significant as you might think.

  • Speed: At 67g the Antagonist plays neither “fast” nor “slow” but for reasons I can’t quite explain it feels a little faster than I would expect for a 67g aluminum yo-yo. I could be completely imagining this but feel it’s worth mentioning.

  • Weight: The weight is somewhere in the middle, maybe slightly on the heavy side. Whether this is a pro or con is completely subjective. Personally I tend to favor yo-yos that are nearer one extreme than another as they feel more unique, so I’m putting this in the neutral category.

  • Torque: The Antagonist generates a good amount of torque with the relatively high diameter:weight ratio and high rim-weight. I place this in neutral rather than “pro” because the high initial torque is offset by a relatively rapid loss of spin due to vibration and the narrow gap width.

  • Noise: It’s not a quiet yo-yo but I’ve played much louder ones.

Cons

  • Narrow gap width: In my opinion the gap width is way too narrow. You can see in profile comparison pics with the Antagonist that it’s significantly more narrow, while the response pads are the same. This causes the yo-yo to lose spin faster than it would with a wider gap due to increased friction, and more important, it drastically increases the responsiveness.

  • Responsiveness: Due to the narrow gap width the Antagonist plays really responsive. With a completely clean bearing, the Antagonist plays unresponsive with tight binds, as it should. In this state it’s excellent. But I’ve had a harder time keeping this yo-yo unresponsive than anything else I’ve ever tried. If the bearing is even slightly dirty, so that the string tends to whip around the axle when tugged, then the yo-yo may become tug responsive. I find this extremely annoying as I’ve had many unintentional binds. Luckily delrin cracking my knuckles hurts a bit less than aluminum.

  • Spin Times: Overall sleeper times are relatively poor due to the vibration and narrow gap width. I was only able to get about 4.5 minutes with a clean bearing. If it’s even slightly dirty you’ll do considerably worse. I consider this more of a con than most people probably would. It does affect day-to-day play but not to the degree one might expect.

  • Grindability: The Antagonist is incredibly hard to do thumb grinds due to the shallow cup design. It’s possible but barely, so if grindability is important to you then you should probably look elsewhere. Personally I don’t much care about thumb grinds.


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Conclusion

I bought the Antagonist expecting something like a portable Antagonist or Checkmate. Did it live up to this expectation? Kind of. For my purposes, having a portable 5A yo-yo, I don’t regret buying it. But there are a few flaws in the design that keep me from whole-heartedly recommending this yo-yo. If you are looking for a delrin 5A yo-yo then you should consider it. If you’re looking for a delrin yo-yo capable of finger spins, then maybe you should consider it. If you want a relatively inexpensive, durable, solidly performing yo-yo, then maybe you should consider it. But if durability and the ability to do finger spins are of less concern than cost, go with a Yoyorecreation Diffusion 2. It’s just as stable, less responsive, smoother playing, similar weight, longer spinning, and it costs about $30 less.

1 Like

Space reserved for reviews of future releases.

I like the review, very thorough :slight_smile:

Do you know if the Agonist is 7075?

I’m pretty sure it is

Did you read this somewhere? I haven’t been able to find this particular piece of information. I’m inclined to think it’s not 7075. I’ve managed to ding up my prototype in a few spots primarily from dice collisions, and I don’t think the dings would be as deep with 7075 aluminum. I’ve had very hard dice collisions on some of my Sturm Panzer yo-yos without noticing any marks. Also, manufacturers usually advertise a yo-yo as using 7075 if it does (with some exceptions), and I haven’t seen this in any of the descriptions. However, the anodization patterns and lack of any splash releases give some evidence it might be 7075.

I’ll email yoyomonster and ask them about it. It’s about 50/50 whether I get an answer and it may or may not be comprehensible. I’m pretty sure the company is really small (possibly one guy) and whoever handles customer service knows very little if any English. I’ve gotten some very confusing replies in the past.

Well I just thought at that price it’s probably 7075, but yea, I’m not sure

Price has nothing to do with 7075 AL, for example expensive TP an Something also dont use 7075.

Awesome reviews Shai!

I’d say they are 6061 simply because they don’t specify. They have the 6061 and 7075 Checkmate and you see they specify the difference.

Huh…I thought they were 6061 too because of lack of specification otherwise, but yoyomonster actually replied to my questions about 1)type of aluminum used and 2)time release frame:

So yes it’s 7075 :slight_smile:

And sadly it won’t be re-released for several months :frowning:

I tried the Antagonist at SpinGear, it played awesome but they didn’t have any in stock when I was there. =(

You are an awesome reviewer!

1 Like

Thanks! Sorry for the delay on the Antagonist review btw. It takes me a while to write these as you can imagine, and I’ve been caught up working out some trades the past few days.

No worries -I’m sure it will be worth the wait!

Your probably the best reviewer on these forums! I love reading your reviews, there is so much thought put into them! :slight_smile:

Thanks :slight_smile:

That reminds me I need to put up that Antagonist review, lol. I’ve been absorbed setting up several trades and watching out for all these new Japanese yo-yos. And I randomly decided to put up this Wii Holster Guide which took a while. Probably should have done the review first. Oh well…I’ll get to it eventually. ETA ?

Dude, how much longer on the review? I’m dying to know about the Antagonist!

Sensational review as usual Shai. You’re reviews are some of the best I’ve ever read, I like how you examine bad points/cons as well, rather than just the good points. Makes it seem very unbiased and informative.

Good job that man, I eagerly await the next one. :slight_smile:

Antagonist review finally up. Sorry for the delay people. The Antagonist is still available at a couple places. If you’re looking for one PM me and I’ll tell you where they’re still in stock.