Fix The Learn!

Rethinkyoyo.com has all the modern tricks you will need, and YYE teaches the basics fantastically.

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I don’t think it would be a bad idea to do the basics again with better video. This is the top yoyo website, right?

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I think there are plenty of tricks here, all the fundamentals, already taught right the first time around. I have no problem with the video quality either. People used to learn from trick books and VHS tapes, so at my age, I’m more than satisfied with what the site already offers. I think Andre’s time is better spent on other things. The store is so successful because he knows what is most important. With entire sites based on tricks only, and Youtube available, it should definitely not be a priority. Besides, the sport will be better off with people trying to create original tricks, rather than learn a bunch of so called new ones anyway.

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Don’t fix it if its not broken…

Apparently it’s “broken” if enough people would like to see an update. :wink:

The videos are a marketing tool. When discovered on YouTube, they might bring people to the store (though not necessarily as I don’t think the videos have the link). When viewed on the website, they reinforce the YoyoExpert brand.

Making new videos, and owning them, André will have a few options and he can decide which suits his strategy:

1 - make them exclusive content, so people have to come to his site to see them. Sort of. Wouldn’t be long before they were ripped and put up on YouTube or someone’s site. :wink:

2 - put them on YouTube but with clear links back to the store. This fortifies the inbound marketing strategy. And then with the videos also being available on his site, he’s reinforcing the up-to-date nature of his site and his commitment to helping the community learn.

Anyone who has done any sort of marketing can see that replacement videos SHOULD be a given, based on option #2 above.

Marketing is a part of business, and “better use of his time” is up for debate. His marketing strategy is already pretty strong if a little stale (sponsored events, SEO primarily) so there’s no crushing need to beef it up yet. But since it’s inevitable, he could seize the opportunity, create stronger opportunities for inbound traffic to his site and create better “optics” (it will look to the newcomer like he’s on top of things, not just recycling old content).

To me, that’s not a waste at all. It’s probably in the top 3 of things he can be doing in the best interest of the site.

“Broken?” “Enough people would like to see an update?” I don’t agree with either. The OP started this as a petition, and a week later, it has not turned into any real indication of the learn section being “broken.” I think there is better support for an argument in the alternative.

I have some experience in marketing, but those who have better experience than I do, often miss the mark. Why do companies often spend so much on advertisements, and then have to “pull” them later (recent news), after those people with degrees and experience in marketing once sat in the board room and thought they were such a good idea. But, back on the topic of this specifically, I see nothing “stale,” about Yoyoexpert marketing. Their marketing is, in fact, diversified and fresh.

The Yoyoexpert logo that we see in the background during contests, the logo on Yoyoexpert edition yo-yos, apparel and other products, the Yoyoexpert trading cards, the Yoyoexpert contest van, this forum, the blog, Youtube Channel and Facebook, click it stick it contest, the stickers we get in the mail with purchases, his relationship with other businesses like Yoyonews, and expanding his relationship with other toy companies (Kendama USA), his relationship and support of local yo-yo clubs (personal appearances and sponsorship, such as NH Yo-Yo Club), and every time I open my mouth :wink: to name a few. Nothing stale about all that in my eyes.

In fact, I found out about this site because I looked up the name under that Yoyoexpert logo that I kept seeing in the background on Youtube. Andre has not plastered his face or his name on the front page of this site, because I guarantee if he always linked his name to this site, you would see a lot more traffic. We see his hands on the front page of the site, not his face, which means he is not into cramming things down people’s throat anyway. He has class. As you know, in marketing, it is not all about “traffic,” it is also about how you develop the image of your brand and business. I was shocked when I found out this was his site, I thought the site owner just liked Andre trick videos. Again, with so many alternative sites for video, this is not a pressing need.

Andre Boulay has been the sponsored player with YoyoJam, he created that catalog of videos on expert village and taught us the fundamentals of yo-yo, he designed several yo-yos, he has been judging contests around the country, he is running his own store. We have not even discussed any family obligations he might have. In terms of the way his career in yo-yo has progressed, he should be allowed to “move on” if he wants to. If he was a teacher more in the past, but now owns a yo-yo store, and uses some of the material he created back then, who are we to suggest that he should drop all the work he has to do running a store, planning events, and judging contests to do trick videos…again. While it must be flattering for him that people want to see it, it may not be how he wants to spend his time right now and move his career on to the next step. I just don’t think he owes us any explanation, or has to be “pressured” to grant our wish on this. I think something like this is a very, very low priority, and not even necessary for marketing purposes.

You made points 1 and 2. You already gave the alternative argument for #1. As for #2, Yoyoexpert already has a large list of subscribers to it’s Youtube channel, where there are hundreds of videos it seems, and thousands of subscribers to that channel. Also, their logo is on stage in the background at all of the major contest performances…video uploaded by other people. No need to have Andre making new video for “marketing.” They are doing a great job in that area already. Not broken, no “need” to fix it. But yeah, if Andre ever gets bored, we want to see him do more video for the heck of it. :smiley:

TA, I don’t think anyone suggested Andre “drop all the work he has to do…” to make new videos. I just know that I didn’t find the videos to be the most helpful when I was learning. There is a site (that has higher quality vids, with clearer explanations and helpful camera angles) that I learned the basics from, and I really feel like I owe them something. If that’s not good marketing, I don’t know what is. :slight_smile:

Not to say I don’t love this site and spend a lot of time (and money) here.

True enough the tutorials on this site have been super helpful to many. I don’t think anyone disputes that. I think the original poster is pushing for some newer tutorials with the same quality Andre brought with the others. I personally would too. As for the 365 tricks why have they not been updated for such a long time?

I think that anyone asking Andre to do more videos, wants him to spend his time…making videos. I didn’t say that anyone said to drop all of what he has to do, but was making the point that, in all the things he has to do in life and business, making new trick videos is not a reasonable request with that list of things he has going on, especially considering the alternatives already available. That’s just my take on it. I don’t know how else he would make videos other than it consuming some of his time (that he uses for other things), unless he can work the Dark Magic and “poof,” make new videos appear. So, from that, I chose to look at all he has done in the past, and all he currently has to do and new trick videos…I could care less. It will clearly take some work, and his time to create videos. That cannot be disputed. Also, making videos of any kind are very time consuming, especially when people want slow motion and all that.

I see that you are not satisfied with the videos, but many of us are, and I’m one of those people. Even a thread like this with 10 people wanting new video, is just not going to do it. Again, I am not into all the high quality, slow motion stuff, so it means nothing to me. I think people should spend more time creating their own tricks, when they get past the fundamentals, that are already shown here. I view this like learning anything, such as in school, you have different teachers. Different teachers offer different things from different perspectives. One teaches first grade, another teaches sixth grade, different subjects, different styles and all that. I just don’t see why people are comparing Andre’s style of teaching with anyone teaching from a different perspective. I just think it is what it is, and he offers what he thinks will work well for what he wants to do, and I’m more than satisfied with that. For instance, hypothetically, if Andre decided to teach up to 6th grade, and does not want to teach grades 6 - 12, I’m fine with that. I see that he has done some work filming the Ben Conde stuff and all that, so he still creates new video for the site occasionally.

I don’t know what Andre’s thoughts are from a teaching perspective these days. But, if he decided to “retire,” from teaching, I’d respect that. We have more than one teacher for everything else in life, why yo-yo would be any different? I just think he should spend his time on other things that are more necessary and important. I hope that clarifies my point a bit better.

It may be a more efficient utilization of time to perhaps outsource the tutorials to trusted sources who would follow a standardized model for how to make the tutorial.

I’d like to see updated videos, but what is there now is fine. My biggest issues is copyright issues as YYE does not control copyright on all the Expert Village videos. I prefer it wen a company has the means to control all their content and own it.

TA, it seems you missed the part where I said they have good marketing already… and that this shouldn’t be their “top” priority (just top-3 marketing priority). The vast majority of your previous post was you agreeing with me, but wording it in such a way that it made it sound like you were countering a claim of mine…!

The only thing we don’t agree on is whether or not updated videos would be good marketing. I could go off on a tangent and not only re-state but delve deeper into why I think updated videos (not necessarily by Andre himself) would be the cornerstone of a forward-thinking marketing strategy focused on growth… I couldn’t back it with YYE’s metrics, so it might not mean a heck of a lot, but it would be an educated and professional opinion. But I think it might fall on deaf ears because you’ve made up your mind. :wink: The brief explanations I already gave would have been enough already if there was an opportunity to convince you the idea is a good one!

I re-read the thread, and took the same thing away from it. We seemed to disagree just on whether or not he should do more trick videos. I didn’t agree (even for marketing purposes), and while I want to see more Andre on video too, I just would not expect to see him go “back to teaching” on video.

We haven’t seen him play at length on video too often, so it may be a hint that he’d like to move away from that. I don’t want to call trick videos “moving backward” for Andre, but it is something he spent a lot of time doing in the “past,” and he seems to be moving forward now in his yo-yo career.

I feel like this analogy. When he made those videos, he was a teacher. Then, he was promoted to a high school principal. Then, he became the Superintendent of Schools. But, as the Superintendent, some remember how good a teacher he was, so they want him to go back. :-\ I would rather remember him as he was, but allow him to move on in his career.

But, I always like to see Andre, so on that GregP we certainly agree. :wink:

Except that I said it doesn’t have to be Andre. :wink:

And I said that we disagree only on the videos but not everything else (that their marketing is generally good, and that it doesn’t have to be their top priority).

I get the sense that you are a very busy woman. LOL!

You could not possibly disagree about the marketing anyway. :wink: Well, if you know Andre any, even if someone else was doing the videos, he’d watch them all, and make sure they are up to par before they end up on here. That consumes time too, because if not…back to the drawing board. I was thinking along the lines of the video getting…no priority at all. But, I guess I can compromise. We’ll agree that it should be #53 on the YYE to do list :slight_smile:

Yes, I am busy, but I try not to let it interfere with forum time. ;D

If you don’t think the videos need updating, Then why do we always get this question, " What is the bind that Andre uses at x:xx time in y-video." Then we have to tell them, " These videos are old, pay no attention to how he ends every trick. Search (insert your favorite site for proper binds.")

I guess I don’t see that question come up as often as you do. Not that it doesn’t, but if it does…so be it. Easy solution, just answer the question if you know the answer. Also, what does the age of a video have to do with a question about the name of a bind? The question seems to mean exactly that…they want to know what the name of the bind is that he uses. If he was to bind the same way in a new video, they can still ask…“What is the bind that Andre uses at x:xx time in y-video.” So, if Andre made new videos, he would have to bind differently, so that no one will ever ask about his binds again, because you are sick of seeing the question? You might still see the question regarding new videos :-\ Please clarify. So, to answer your question to me, that question about binds comes up, likely because people want to know about the name of a bind. But, I don’t see what it has to do with the age of the videos. Yes, I still don’t think the videos need updating. My opinion on that remains the same. :slight_smile:

He is binding off of the trapeze, which causes even him a snag a lot in the vids. The reason it has to do with the age of the video is nobody uses this bind anymore. The reason, it is very snaggy.

*Edit: spell check says snaggy isn’t a word, but it has never tried that bind. ;D

“Nobody?” I use it. If he wants people to learn that way, so be it in my eyes. It is his site, he can do what he wants in the learn section. Some people start learning responsive, and some do not. As I stated much earlier in this thread, his teaching method is his teaching method. If you recommend otherwise, cool, but the site and the trick videos are at discretion of the owner of the site. He seems cool enough with it. If a poster asked me the name of a bind, I would simply tell them the name of the bind, and not tell them, “nevermind that, the video is old.” I’d answer what they asked, because maybe they like a snaggy bind. I would just say, “that’s a such and such bind.” Who am I to judge? How many times do people ask me why I double wrap my string around a yo-yo? I hardly have a reason…just like to do it and do it. Some like it, some don’t, different strokes… Same with that bind.

The rolling bind he uses is not taught on the site AFAIK, which is the first point of confusion. Next, it works best on a semi-responsive yoyo which most people don’t use anymore (people are either full responsive or unresponsive). It’s surprisingly difficult on a wide-gapped unresponsive yoyo. It’s not a true bind. When it works, it’s a very snaggy bind and needs to be cleared (you can see Andre clearing it multiple times in every video). If you don’t clear it, you’re asking for a yoyo to the head.

So it’s not that people want the name for it, it’s that it’s not a good bind for them to learn until later (if ever…). But they don’t know that, so when they keep failing at it, they ask for the name of it so that they can (ironically) go find other tutorials for it.

At that point, most of us say “Ehhh… it’s not a very good bind. Here are some other ones to learn instead…”.

[edit: ninja’d by Yooldman, but the points stand]

You obviously love it more than I want to complain about it, but isn’t this discussion section about suggesting site improvements. Do we have to defend all of our suggestions? I know that you love the status quo, but having this long discussion has suddenly made me more reluctant to start a new topic here. I guess we better just like it how it is.