Thoughts on MagicYoYo

OK lets think for a second…
How much does the US owe China??

Well they bailed us the banks out…

SO i guess we owe them like 200 billion dollars. Or 15,384,615,384 magic yoyos.

This isn’t much of a Looking for Help thread anymore, but hey, why not talk about it. :stuck_out_tongue:

Another thing to be considering if the throws are in fact good, why do C3 throws cost so much if they’re manufactured in China? Where is MagicYoyo in the community?

I know. Idk why it showed up here! Lol

I’ve been wondering this too… kind of why I haven’t bought their product yet. I’m guessing it’s something like “they’re different” ::slight_smile:

Magic Yoyo sponsors contests in Asia. They don’t have much of a presence here at all. Then again, we aren’t their target market. I’ve seen photos and such with their logo on the banner behind the stage.

Cool, good to know. I’m looking into snagging one in the next couple of days probably. Wouldn’t be a bad idea I guess. :-X

Evrey yoyo is a ripoff…
In 1929 an entrepreneur named Donald F. Duncan recognized the potential of this new fad and purchased the Flores Yo-yo Corporation and all its assets, including the Flores name, which was transferred to the new company in 1932 - the same year that the name “Yo-yo” was first registered as a trademark[10] and Harvey Lowe won the first World Yo-Yo Contest in London, England.
So was Duncan…

The responses on this thread are so foolish that it is actually depressing.

As many have noted: “Magic Yo does not have much of a presence here…” That is because they are pricing their yoyos below the price of production.

The thesis of most of these posts is:

  1. Magic Yo sells their Sleipnir copy for $25.
  2. YYR sells their Sleipnir for $200.
  3. YYR, and all other manufacturers that charge retail MUST be ripping me off.

Hey guys, Memo: Businesses in China do not have the same basis as businesses in the USA, or any other western country for that matter. You are projecting the business and competitive cost mechanisms from the USA to China that simply do not exist. Chinese businesses do not have the same capitalist incentives that an individual business in the USA have; nor do they have the cost structures. There are actually incentives to sell at or below cost to attract foreign capital into China due to the artificial valuation of the Yuan. So assuming that their cost of business and definition of “profit/loss” are the same as ours is ludicrous. Flaying real, tax-paying, for profit businesses here in the USA because they cannot match these state-subsidized prices is most unfair.

The most important thing to remember is that the Chinese market is largely closed to foreign competition. This means that Magic Yo has 1.2 Billion Chinese customers all to themselves that they can easily recover their “losses” when they sell you a $25 yoyo. How many CLYW, OneDrop, YYR are sold in China? What are the duties that must be paid to get those yo-yos into China for sale? Typically the import duties are more than the item itself if the item is manufactured outside of China. This keeps foreign competition out and moves production into China so it its workers can learn new skills and technology can be “absorbed”.

This is the basis of all real business friction with China. The only business that like this arrangement is Wall St. That is why it is allowed to continue. As long as there remains this uneven playing field - China will continue to have incentive to export domestic Chinese inflation to the USA in the form of debt-securites purchases. These large scale bond acquisitions by the Chinese government is literally the fuel that makes Wall St. run.

They have a Sleipnir copy? News to me.

I caved and bought a T5 and T6. At the worst, I might have two bearings to clean. We’ll see what happens. ::slight_smile:

I got a t5, it was too good to pass up at 13 bucks at my door. Its amazing for that price. The bearing is great, at least for the short time I have owned it.

I really am looking forward to having a n12, it looks like a winner.

I cannot afford most of these yoyos you guys have, If I could I would…

Geezer, you’re going to have to dumb that down a bit. There are probably two people here who understood all of that.

If the Chinese state is funding these money losing ventures, who is funding the Chinese state?

What part of their activities are immoral or unscrupulous?

What prevents U.S. companies from adopting a similar structure? Would there be a benefit?

Can you provide numbers and examples with cited sources? Recommended reading, maybe?

I have seen, with my own eyes, evidence of YYF having a working relationship with both Aoda and Auldey. I have tried and own some Chinese yoyos that are as well made and original in design as any American yoyos I own.

I’m not doing much of a job of making my point. Here it is as simple as I can put it: Where is the proof? If you would accuse a man of a crime, hyperbole and conjecture are not enough to convict him in a fair court. You must have proof. I would love to see the negative accusations towards the Chinese companies proven if only to put this argument to rest.

(For the record, there are only a few Chinese yoyos that appeal to me. I’m mostly a YYJ fan. Thanks again for the deal on the Xcon Pros, Geezer :slight_smile: Really fantastic yoyos.)

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Sleipnir

Weight (g) 65.0
Diameter (mm) 57.00
Width (mm) 43.00

T5

Weight (g) 67.4
Diameter (mm) 54.5
Width (mm) 39.5

This is not a Copy.

Not aligned perfectly vertically, but you get the idea.
Pink = T5
Purple = Sleipnir

C3 have more yoyo based staff, I guess that’s how to describe it, after checking out each website you can definitely see a difference in just site quality alone, that’s where the price goes up.

The 3 main guys at c3 are very well known around asia, with a ‘very well paid’ skill set (ie Video producer, web dev etc). From what I can find about C3 is that they, like most smaller companies, hire other machining companies to do the work (One Drop’s machines are used by quite a few companies), this ups the manufacturing cost compared to MYY.

Over in MYY’s corner they have 20staff and 5 tech engineers quoted from magicyoyo.cn.
Another factor in MYY’s favor is that they own their own lathes and lots of them “We have 9 CNC lathe,3 sets of large, 2 sets of steel processing machine,laser machine” Quoted from myy site. Because of this they actually hire out there lathes for OED/OEM work which undoubtedly makes a bit of revenue, along side MYY the company also owns a couple other name brand toys (can be found from the magicyoyo.cn), that is why they can offer such low prices. Instead of sending it back and forth between machiners and laser’ers they just take the design downstairs and boom finished.

Here is the Magicyoyo.cn FAQ for anyone wanting to read it, it should answer most if not all question about how this company can keep prices so low but quality fairly high.

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Wow thank you! That’s quite insightful! I should have looked myself, but now I’m interested.

I really appreciate you digging that up. I would love to see pictures of their factory. A real yoyo factory.

Check out the behind the scenes One Drop videos :slight_smile: They showed off a in a couple of videos late last year which showed basically the ins and outs of what happens in a yoyo makers shed.

One of reason why Magic yo-yo is so cheap(under 10$) is that they use lower quality aluminium. That is reason, why newest N12 is only one which has 6061 written specifications and why they mention it in all PR stuff. Another is that they make really tons of them.

Even in China is Magic yo-yo considered low-end, they have their own higher-end brands like Top-yo, Empire, God-Tricks, Yoyofficer,…

I have nothing against Magic yo-yo, lower quality, but also really cheap, but I hate their distributor in Czech and Slovak Republic. They sell basic models for prices over 30$, sell them through small kid shops that has no idea how modern yo-yo looks like and recommend them to small kids as their first yo-yo, when they should get something like butterfly XT instead.

Yoyogeezer: Is it really so bad with importing yo-yos to china? I checked some chinese shops, for example YYR for 210$, YYF also reasonable prices. On videos from contest I always see t-shirts of Yoyorecreation, Something, C3(not really outside of china, but close).

No one “funds” a state. Each state, or treasury creates money in accordance with the demand for capital and credit. The United States creates money through multiple mechanisms that result in the supply of money to fund economic activities. If they create too much - inflation will occur. This is because foreign investors recognize that the increased amount of money supplying the same output must mean that the currency unit is devalued.

Because the Chinese economy is a command economy they can “fund” whatever they wish to fund. Because the Chinese Yuan is not traded internationally, China is mostly immune to externally created inflation; or the devaluation of their currency due to value fluctuation.

The price that is paid is that to continue this cycle - China must remove the excess foreign capital that accumulates in the economy due to international trade (the $ they get for their McDonalds Kids meal toys…). If this capital was retained in a Communist, command-economy, the result would be that individual members of Chinese society would get rich. This would inevitably create social strife within a Communist country. To avoid this strife, the Chines regularly use the foreign capital ($) that they get trading with the US. to buy US. Bonds on the open market. This removes the inflationary foreign capital from their markets while also funding a long-term social benefits program for a Chinese society that has no social safety nets at all.
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In China, this is how business is done. It is also why the economies of SE Asia have been devoid of innovation and creativity. If you allow those with an unfair advantage to prey on those without advantage; individuals will simply give-up trying to innovate or create since it will inevitably be stolen by someone who already owns the facilities to make the newly designed item. This Gengis Khan mentality will forever make you a follower not a leader or innovator. Only when innovators are rewarded, will you get innovation. It is human nature.
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US. Law prevents those with structural advantages from preying on those with less resources (called: even playing field). That is why we have patent laws and laws preventing foreign companies from taking advantage of our open markets. The benefit is that creators and innovators are rewarded in our economy. This sets an example to other would-be innovators and encourages them to take risk and innovate for the benefit of all.

What would have happened if IBM had been allowed to steal the original ideas of Steve Jobs and early Apple Computer? IBM would have crushed Apple on price alone because of their manufacturing and marketing muscle. Apple would have gone bankrupt early on. The result: No iOS, iTunes, iPhone, no iPad, no Apple TV…

A quick look at economies without these protections shows the benefit to everyone. Because the Chinese take momentary advantage of this does not make it right or moral.

That YYF and others cooperate with Chinese manufacturers is more a function of our open markets than theirs.

A great example of the harm done is the recent case of solar-panel dumping that was just won by German solar panel manufacturers. The Chinese solar panel companies were PROVEN to be dumping as well as predatory in their pricing. Why? Because the Chinese government subsidizes this industry in order to gain scale. The result is the loss of high-wage jobs in the west and a dying solar industry as a whole. This complaint was filed with the US authorities. The result? The Chinese manufacturers INCREASED the shipment of these offending panels resulting in retroactive penalties against Chinese manufacturers when the case was decided against them.

This is only one example. There are more as well as many more not reported since there is no economic incentive to do so (not enough $ to make hiring lawyers worth it). Whether economically justifiable or not, these offenses cost jobs and lives. The only people who benefit are the factory owners and their financiers (Think: Mitt Romney, etc…).

As for Magic-Yo: Where do you think all those CNC machines came from? Who pays their salaries? Their health insurance; auto insurance; OSHA benefits and safety measures? From what source of funding? What currency do they use to buy materials? From where?

The ultimate question that one must consider is the quality of life. The Chinese are greatly increasing their quality of life. But that increased quality is the benefit of the creativity and innovation from our economies. Without this, the Chinese landscape would have remained unchanged. This is the heart of the debate. Yes, a system can always be gamed; but at what cost? I would rather pay $150 for a CLYW to ensure that there will more. Buying one for $30 just puts the innovators at CLYW out of business. That is why economists label this choice as a “disincentive”.

Think about it.

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Thanks for the insight Geezer. I’m not really too bothered off willingly contributing a few bucks to MYY for these yoyo’s… but the thought of it (all goods) on a huge scale, which it is, is kind of eery… and does kind of bother me.

It amazes me everyday how the world doesn’t collapse in on itself. lol… think I’m just gonna go think about other things and play yoyo…

Also, just wanted to throw it out there… Apple’s crap is made in China, wonder if they could have done it without China manufacturing their products?